F-Spot

bengt good morning
TheHand good night
mercen morning/night bengt
bengt good everything.. :)
mercen Hello World? ;)
lewing cmarqu: toshok is a friend of mine and I've been playing with the turtle code. It will get integrated when it is ready
lewing hola bangt
lewing bengt
lewing I think my brain is not working so well today
lewing bengt: looking at the xmp import patch now
bengt mine has definitely not started up yet...
bengt is everyone here that can be here
hub lewing: is there any plan to make your repository of raw files available?
hub lewing: because I don't have Nat to pimp my request hub so you probably have more than I'll ever get
bengt are we ready to start the meeting or?
ajmitch morning
lewing hub: I can make several public, I can send you even more privately
lewing hub: I plan to put some into cvs as part of the test suite as well
mercen test suite? Are you working on it?
lewing hub: do need them soon?
lewing mercen: haven't started, it is at the top of my list after I get through all these backlogged patches
mercen after all the patches? Not any time soon then ;)
bengt lewing: Any news on the patches that were discussed in the previous meetings...
mercen but I'd love to see xmp getting in as I intend on building upon it
lewing mercen: at first it will just be simple unit tests of the image and metadata loaders
hub lewing: I have been working on libopenraw lately hub and I'll soon exhaust my files
bengt thinks it would be great to get them out of the way, since a lot of people worked heavily on them...
lewing hub: I'll try to find some time to put them somewhere you can get them
hub thanks
mercen lewing: as long as there is some kind of test suite, that's good mercen if only because it will motivate others to contribute to it
lewing bengt: rotate is in, scale e-mail is in
lewing bengt: looking at xmp now
lewing bengt: query branch is right after xmp
mercen suddenly, life is looking great
bengt lewing: Brilliant... we also have two small remaining ones from Goal #3
bengt photo dir, ... and... hmm... photo dir :)
bengt how about updating to a later version of semweb?
lewing heh, yeah very soon
lewing that would be fine
lewing but I'd rather have the unit tests for metadata in first
bengt have you seen the mails about the Mission Statement? Would definitely appreciate your comment/feedback on this.
mercen lewing: regarding metadata, I've seen in the xmp specs something that seemed to imply f-spot's current xmp is not correct
mercen lewing: namely the fact nodeID's are not valid in xmp
mercen lewing and my understanding is that the new semweb would fix this
mercen lewing according to what karlp_ was saying
prokoudine mercen: which goal does icon size come from? :)
mercen tonight's, isn't it so?
bengt goal #4
lewing mercen: there is a slight problem with the current output
lewing mercen: it is valid rdf but xmp is more restrictive
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mercen lewing: yeah, that's what I understood this weekend
lewing mercen: fixing it should be a couple of hours of work
mercen but is there something more than this nodeID thing?
lewing I think the nodeID and the ugliness are the only problems
bengt Regarding Icon Size. Goal #4, did anyone have any more comments?
mercen I was looking at f-spot's code and I had the feeling karlp_ was right to say the problem was with the version of semweb currently in use
mercen lewing: in the example on semweb's website, they create something that looks right using a blank node
lewing the ugliness is probably improved with a newer semweb
mercen lewing: f-spot also uses a blank node but does not create the kind of structure we want so it does look like upgrading would fix that
lewing ok I'll move that up on the priority list
mercen bengt: apart from the fact that small looks too small to be usable, no comment
mercen and sde has already told me it is actually useful
mercen though I can assure you it is not on my screen ;)
bengt any one else have any comments on the icon size patch?
lewing I haven't really looked at that one yet
lewing I browsed the patch but haven't played with it to see the utility
mercen I can definitely see the usefulness of it. Only the smallest size is useless for me
bengt since mercen, sde and myself checked it, and lewing checked a bit as well, can we state that it should be ready for commit?
kevin_ I used the patch and liked it.
lewing If people go over the old bugs and make sure they apply cleanly to current cvs that would help
mercen I'll see if I can do that this week
lewing bengt: feel free to flag it that way
bengt Thanks, will do that.
lewing people still don't seem to be using the accepted-commit-now flag after 3 or 4 approvals
bengt Nope, not yet... will change that :)
lewing cool
lewing I think it will help speed up the processing for me as long as only a few bugs have that state
lewing bengt: are you still crashing at startup then?
bengt lewing: Yap, but I linked my ~/gnome2/f-spot to /var/tmp/f-spot
lewing do you have an nfs home directory?
lewing yes
lewing lewing can't remember all the details
lewing bengt: did you check out the sqlite site to see if there were hints about using sqlite on nfs?
bengt nope, did not have time for that...
bengt bengt is heading of for sqlite land for a bit...
bengt google "sqlite nfs" -- This is because fcntl() file locking is broken on many NFS implementations. You should avoid putting SQLite database files on NFS if multiple processes ...
lewing bengt: can you set up a goals page that has a link to each bug for all the goals so far so that I can tick them off from one place?
bengt ok, will try to do that
lewing sounds like beagle and f-spot fighting over the db over nfs
lewing assuming you are running beagle these days
bengt nothing with beag among my processes...
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lewing ok, could just be f-spot alone somehow
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bengt anyway, we have three more issues on the agenda. 1) Mission Statement, 2) Albums/Tagging system, and 3) Next Goal
hub have you guys seens that http://missioncode.org/index.fcgi/wiki/PhotoOrganizer ?
lewing hub: I had not, looks interesting
lewing adam and eve scare me though ;)
prokoudine I have seen and used it
lewing prokoudine: how is it?
prokoudine very leightweight and not much featureful
prokoudine always copies photos to its own directorym renaming them
prokoudine no EXIF,no IPTC
prokoudine No GPS
lewing man, I'm slow these days
prokoudine slow 'bout what?
lewing so many lilttle things to do
prokoudine ah ;)
prokoudine you have large things as well :)
lewing prokoudine: working through the backlog
lewing eaxctly
lewing just need to got into a cave for a week and get things sorted out
mercen lewing: no worries. As long as you are making progress, that's fine
bengt Did anyone have any comments on the remaing issues?
prokoudine but it export my pics to Flickr in a second
prokoudine Like 321025 - Tag icon size?
lewing bengt: I have some thoughts on albums/sets but I haven't had any time to write them up
prokoudine or 139796 - Query tag (Goal #2)
lewing bengt: they are an important part of the work for the next year though
lewing there are just big things in front of them
bengt lewing: Were you looking at XMP Import patch now, and after that the query tag?
lewing like raw photos and fixing import (fixing import has been on every list since the beginning of time I think)
bengt prokoudine: 321025 was decided ready for commit
lewing bengt: yes
prokoudine bengt: I received notofication :)
prokoudine noti*
mercen lewing: does "raw photos" mean exporting to jpeg?
prokoudine what is interesting for me is what users F-Spot is targetting. since I personally would love anapp somewaht similar to Lightroom... :)
mercen lewing: and should we brainstorm on the import for next meeting?
mercen prokoudine: +1
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mercen though I care more about it being able to do the same than doing it in the same way
bengt mercen: import?
prokoudine mercen: target group decides workflow
mercen bengt: lewing was reminding us how import needs some love
prokoudine when we answer this question, we have answers for many more questions, I suppose
bengt bengt would love to get the Mission Statement out of the way also...
lewing bengt: when I say import I mean the ui and duplicate detection
mercen I'm not convinced it can't be both for Average Joe and commited amateurs/semi-pros
bengt mercen: lewing for sure the import needs a lot of love...
lewing the mission write great software and have fun doing it
mercen bengt: I think that's what prokoudine and I are discussing right now
lewing everything else is details ;)
prokoudine :)
mercen lewing: :)
prokoudine buit thenwe need to design workflow either way
bengt ;)
lewing absolutely
mercen prokoudine: I believe it's possible to make f-spot useful to somebody who'll use only part of the workflow
mercen just like from what I could see, Lightroom can be useful to Average Joe
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mercen but I have to admit I haven't played with it so am not 100% sure this is true...
hub lewing: I have been looking at Adam and Eve. My biggest issue is that it does not work on Linux yet
hub but soone
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prokoudine mercen: I have a couple of ideas I shared a while ago, but no time to sit down and write it all in a prokoudinenice conceptual manner
mercen shared here?
mercen prokoudine: but for now, rather than finding how it can benefit both classes of users, we need to agree on whether it can be done or not
mercen the best way would of course to actually do it
mercen but I doubt that's going to be that easy...
prokoudine i have no doubts it won't be easy :)
mercen so, is the goal going to be to please both classes of users? Or in other words, is our mission statement something like "we'll please Average Joe and her semi-pro friend"?
mercen s/her/his/
mercen been spending too much time with feminists ;)
mercen bengt: what's your feeling? I believe you're looking more for a cataloging app than anything else, isn't it so?
kevin_ If I can put my 2 cents, if you only aim to please the average Joe is it going to differ much from the online albums?
bengt yes, myself is mainly for handling photo albums, quickly finding wanted photos, and also doing minor touchup/effects (think picasa), as well as printing (crop)
mercen sorry, I can't think picasa as I haven't got it ;)
mercen but I think I can imagine what you mean
bengt lewing: comments?
mercen bengt: got any answer for kevin_, then?
mercen I'd like f-spot to be full workflow, so for me the difference is obvious
bengt kevin_: full size photos... 50,000 photos... fast access...
prokoudine yep, editing the session...
kevin_ that is the sort of thing I was thinking, but I did not think that was what the average Joe wanted?
prokoudine review, rate, delete as fast as possible
bengt f-spot is your main photo album for all your photos... the online version are more for sharing a subset of your photos...
prokoudine well, catalog related options can be in the left pane and editing - in the right one
prokoudine hide one and Average Joe is happy
mercen prokoudine: would you need both onscreen at the same time?
mercen I don't think I would
bengt prokoudine: Which is mainly a photo album :) putting the photos in the correct place (tagging/rating), and discarding (deleting)
kevin_ The sorts of things for myself that would stand out are the version handling and a way to handle my bracketed exposures in a way that does not leave many simmilar photos on show.
prokoudine kevin_: and it's pretty important to remember what type of files are these versions
mercen kevin_: I hear you, versionning is one of the things I'd like to improve
prokoudine because when I hear "multiple recompressed JPEGs", you know... :)
bengt bengt thinks we need lewing 's input on the mission statement... and in the discussion.
mercen sure
kevin_ prokoudine:Yes a lossless format for editing is a must, fine to export to jpeg though
bengt How about trying to get plug-in patch as next goal, or is it not ready yet? do anyone know?
mercen it sounded readyish
mercen I haven't played with it though
bengt as far as I understood also...
mercen only had a quick look at the code
bengt otherwise, we have 321928 - Predefined date ranges and 321770 - Last 20 rolls which were mentioned last meeting as well
kevin_ I have tried the export patch but my coding is not quite up to it yet but it seemed to work. An image editing/enhancement plugin would probably gain more followers?
prokoudine kevin_: what I was thinking about is simply a chain of effects - you don't warry about compressions, prokoudinedestructive cropping etc., every changes is an adjustment layer
prokoudine be the original RAW or JPEG
mercen prokoudine: and that's probably what we'll get
bengt kevin_: The plan is to have plug-ins for Import, Export and Editing....
karl I reckon that joe average would use more features if he had them available in a form he coul duse
mercen ppl were interested in GEGL in that respect
kevin_ prokoudine:That would be great but it does depend on f-spot having all functions in-house?
karl lots of joe average have shit loads of file, no way of sorting it, no way of sharing it, and don't know how to start
karl jimmy not so average has the same needs, they just have a better idea of what they want.
prokoudine kevin_: functions like...?
kevin_ prokoudine:levels, curves aspect adjustments, white balance fixes. The sorts of functions you use to correct/enhance photos.
prokoudine kevin_: F-Spot could possibly be another GEGLhost
kevin_ Afraid I dont know GEGL.
mercen karl: if you have ideas on how f-spot could be more useful, we'd love to hear them as I'm sure we all agree that f-spot should be as usable as possible
prokoudine http://pippin.gimp.org/gegl
mercen kevin_: the new graphical library that will be used by the next gimp
kevin_ bengt: That sounds great.
bengt ok guys, I have to go soon...
mercen would make it possible for f-spot to implement the same functionnality gimp has, though probably with a simpler interface (and more limited, of course)
lewing bengt: input patch is a good goal
mercen bengt: wish you a good day
karl mercen: at the moment I just want it to fit into my existing workflow.
bengt Mission Statement should preferably be agreed upon, or we have to defere it again....
mercen karl: don't we all? ;)
karl I love how easy it is to tag things
bengt Next goal should be agreed upon as well
karl it's not nearly fast enough for adding captions however
bengt lewing: Do we have a ready input patch?
karl but, I already have a tool to do that :)
bengt or should we create one?
prokoudine we could actually write several user scenarios
prokoudine since all of us have different workflows
prokoudine or most :)
kevin_ bengt: I have been looking at the mission statement mails but got confused, is there a draft you are looking to propose or for ideas?
bengt while I am still here... Should we store the date/time F-Spot imported the photo for EVERY photo f-spot has? Or just the last 20 rolls?
kevin_ bengt:My vote is every.
prokoudine bengt: that's a good question. I would vote for every
bengt kevin_: We are looking for a common draft..... a lot of common ideas, but a bit different wordings...
mercen bengt: the drafts I've seen were not for a workflow app
lewing bengt: I honestly meant to type extension (aka plug-in) no idea why I typed input
bengt mercen: not sure you would go into the most detail in the mission statement...
bengt lewing: Makes more sence :)
lewing trying to do 12 things at onece right now might have something to do with it though
mercen bengt: I don't mean detail, but the ones I've seen made me feel like f-spot would not do more than cataloging
kevin_ Not having been here too long it seems to me a, this is stage 1 statement, this is long term statement would stop people expecting a full apperture style app immediately?
bengt mercen: please feel free to come with a sample (do not remember if you did....) and we also need lewing input...
mercen bengt: haven't suggested anything yet because I wanted to know whether I was the only one longing for a workflow app. I now have the answer to that question so I can start thinking about the wording
bengt I have to rush for work now....
bengt there was a discussion about workflow on the mailing list a while back (a few weeks/month)
bengt could someone write up the minutes after the meeting is finished?
prokoudine and it had no end
mercen if you mean the one started by aigars, I've seen it
karl (what are you using for breakpoints and source level debugging under mono?)
karl (or should I be working with visual studio?)
mercen I wonder why I'm not surprised to see that nobody wants to write the minutes ;)
prokoudine what means "minutes"?
mercen summary of what has been said during the meeting
prokoudine uhm,and we had a meeting today? ;)
mercen lol
prokoudine I should have known
prokoudine I would wear a tuxedo
bengt prokoudine: very un-organized one though
kevin_ Since my coding is a bit dodgy I can try and do some minutes if you like.
kevin_ Assuming it does not go too long into the night!
mercen with bengt away and lewing busy, I don't think we'll be saying much more tonight
mercen and sde missing
ajmitch we have a list of small fixes that can go in soon?